From War-torn Homeland to Heartland

Interviewer 1 [00:00:00] So can we go ahead and state your full name? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:00:04] [00:00:04] [0.0s] Thu Nguyen Wright

Interviewer 1 [00:00:04] Okay. And have you gone by any other names at birth that's different? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:00:10] My. Let me see. Nguyễn Thị Ngọc Thu.

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:00:20] Thank you. Yeah, that's my full name. 

Interviewer 1 [00:00:22] And where were you born? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:00:23] I was born in South Vietnam. 

Interviewer 1 [00:00:26] South Vietnam? Okay.

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:00:27] In Saigon. Kien Hoa, South Vietnam

Interviewer 1 [00:00:32] So where do you live today? And what do you do for a living? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:00:38] Right now I live in Oklahoma City on the north side of Oklahoma City. On 122nd and MacArthur. And right now, I volunteer at the Cowboy Museum. National Cowboy Heritage Museum. 

Interviewer 1 [00:01:00] Do you remember much about your childhood, growing up in Vietnam? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:01:06] That I had fun. No, I grew up, with, my aunt. You know, my parents live in the, in in the south side, like Kien Hoa And they send us my brother, my sister and me to Saigon to attend a French school from first grade through 12th. So I was living with my aunt. And she was the first Vietnamese female doctor in Vietnam. And she just passed away when she was five hundred, no, one hundred five year old in Paris. So all my education was done in French. 

Interviewer 1 [00:02:06] Wow in Vietnam. So do you remember what do you remember most about your parents during that time as well?  

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:02:14] My parents, both of them were instructors, teachers, and my father passed when I was 15 years old. And my mother raised the three of us. Sent my brother to France up till he graduated from high school. And he's been living in close to Paris outside of Paris since 1961. 

Interviewer 1 [00:02:48] So then you're multilingual then? So what other languages do you speak? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:02:53] I speak, French, Vietnamese, English and Spanish. I have a degree to teach. I came here to work as a teacher assistant. But in 75. Then I went back to school to get my degrees. French. BA in French, Spanish, English, ESL and then teaching certification. Then I have my master's degree in education. And I was, selected by one of my students as the most, like, best Teacher in America, in 2002. 

Interviewer 1 [00:03:51] That's an incredible achievement. 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:03:52] You must be proud of me. 

Interviewer 1 [00:03:53] [Laughter] I am very proud of you. Very, very proud of you and what you've accomplished and what you've done. And can you tell us a little bit, like growing up in Vietnam, what were your family traditions? What are some of the activities you did as a, a child growing up in Vietnam?

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:04:13] In Vietnam. Just like a regular kid, you know. But I remember the most is when we had the summer vacation. You know, since we, grew up with my aunt. And in the summer, we took the. How do you call it the bus? You know, but to Kien Hoa. And my grandfather house is a big house in the city. And there was there was a river. And we'd like to swim. I don't know how to swim. And then how do you say that? Thác mương, You know, we had those little  mương like a stream or something like that. 

Interviewer 2 [00:05:15] Like a creek? 

Interviewer 1 [00:06:39] Girl Scouts. So, so how many siblings do you have? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:06:44] I have, I'm the youngest of three. My sister lives in Virginia. My brother lives in France, and, I'm the youngest of three. 

Interviewer 1 [00:06:58] And when you were growing up, was there any challenges? To only being three. Did you get along? And did you have a lot of times where you got in quarrels or anything like that? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:07:14] You know, I got along with everybody. 

Interviewer 1 [00:07:16] Everybody. 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:07:17] And I like to talk. So now I go to the Y every morning. You know, exercise, swim and exercise. And before I start swimming, I have called that the, coffee time with a friend older then I. So we had coffee first and then. And that's my activities for the day.

Interviewer 1 [00:07:46] And I remember you saying, you teach French and so do you still do conversational French classes? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:07:54] No. It's regular. 

Interviewer 1 [00:07:56] Regular? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:07:56] I taught French, in Putnam City High School and Spanish. Then I retired from Putnam City Public Schools in 2002. And then I taught French part time at OU and OCU.

Interviewer 1 [00:08:19] Like the University of Oklahoma. 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:08:20] Yeah, Oklahoma City University and OU Oklahoma University.

Interviewer 1 [00:08:27] Very good, very good. So let's let's go back and let's talk about the war. How old were you when the Vietnam War occurred? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:08:36] Okay. You're talking about old, old War of just the 75?

Interviewer 2 [00:08:44] Well, that's a good question. What year were you born? 

Interviewer 2 [00:08:47] What year were you born? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:08:51] 43. 

Interviewer 2 [00:08:52] 43. So you. So you must. 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:08:54] Yeah, it was 40. I was born in 43, so I'm a year older, you know, like I'm a year old when. 

Interviewer 2 [00:09:06] And there was conflict happening at the time already in Vietnam. Yeah, with the French. Yeah, yeah. 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:09:14] At that time, it was Japanese. 

Interviewer 2 [00:09:17] Okay Japanese. Yeah. Okay.

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:09:19] Second World War at that time. 

Interviewer 1 [00:09:22] Can you talk about a little bit about that? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:09:25] I was one year old.

Interviewer 2 [00:09:26] You don't remember.

Interviewer 2 [00:09:29] But when, the Geneva Accord happened in 1954. 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:09:35] Yeah. 

Interviewer 2 [00:09:35] Where Vietnam was divided between North and South. About 1954.

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:09:40] The treaty?

Interviewer 2 [00:09:41] Yes. Do you remember that? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:09:45] Not really in 54. 

Interviewer 2 [00:09:48] You were still young, like ten. 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:09:50] Yeah, I was too young. Too young to remember. But I remember that, some people, you know, moved from North to Saigon to the South. And I remember that there were a lot of Vietnamese from North coming to our school. The French school, Marie Curie at that time. And, you know, we had conflict between the North and South at that time. So we had fun. You know, nothing, serious, but we tease each other, you know. 

Interviewer 1 [00:10:36] And then let's let's talk about the war that occurred the, the later after 1954 and, and then 1975 leading up to that. 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:10:46] You know, I can talk about the Tet Offensive.

Interviewer 1 [00:10:50] Tet Offensive. Yes. Please do please talk about. 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:10:53] Okay so at that time, I remember that I just had my daughter. You know. And my her father was teaching was still not teaching, but, student at the medical center. And he went to Huế. You know, to help. So I remember that I, I packed, you know, like, matches and everything for him, mì gói. [Laughter] So he spend like almost like two weeks in Huế in helping the wounded, and he had to crawl on the the ground to get to the wounded people. I remember in at home I couldn't have any news from him. And my daughter was still like one. You know Tet Offensive was 67, so I remember that. Then, we live, you know not like in front but by the, cathedral and the presidential palace is here. And our houses on this, this side. And we could see. No. We could hear the rockets, you know, around our house. And then we saw people running because there's a park in front of the presidential palace. And. And then the people. The news people. The router. It's right next to our house running. So it was scary. And then we have curfew. We couldn't get out of the house. So we had. And I remember it was terrible. We. You know, we had I had my purse next to me. And then like, working clothes, just ready to get out of the house because they send rockets to the the presidential palace to the embassy. It's around there. And the, army headquarters. It's around our house. So it was really. It's scary. I remember that. And then the coup d'etat. You know, when the. President Diệm and, it's. I can tell it's scary. Yeah. It's scary. 

Interviewer 2 [00:14:16] Did your brother have to go to war? Did your brother get drafted for war? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:14:21] Oh no, because he was. He. 

Interviewer 2 [00:14:25] He was already in France?

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:14:26] After he graduated from high school he went to France directly.

Interviewer 2 [00:14:32] Okay. And he never returned?

Interviewer 1 [00:14:35] And let's talk about your husband then. So you said your husband was in medical school. 

Interviewer 1 [00:15:19] Equivalency for a doctor, a medical degree?

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:15:23] Yeah. Kind of, if you want to, even here, you know, you have to if you have a foreigner, you have to take that. You know, to get into medical school here. So is a equivalency, and some, even some, Americans here, if they couldn't get into medical school here, they, went they go to Mexico or to Puerto Rico. And then when they can come back here, they have to take the ease of entry. You see, it's so it's the same thing with doctors. So they called them the Saigon five. So those five organize classes. And at that time there were almost like 240 or some doctors and some of them like, the, minister of the, yeah, I think. Ông lửa y, mình là gọi là (minister, we call him) minister, right? 

Interviewer 2 [00:16:44] No, I'm not sure. 

Interviewer 1 [00:16:44] Medical director? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:16:46] Yes. Big boss. Bộ trưởng (minister).

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:16:51] And so they came here to study. And then many of them got the ECFMG. They moved to California, you know, big cities. And one of them. Two of them stayed, I think, to, you know. Bác sĩ chỉnh (chiropractor), the singer. 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:17:16] Cái gì chỉnh mình hả? (What is his name again?)

Interviewer 1 [00:17:18] Trương chỉnh

Interviewer 1 [00:17:23] He's a singer that sings with on the lot of the movie. On a lot of the Asia, Paris by Night.

Interviewer 2 [00:17:56] But your husband was in the program? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:18:00] Yes, he was. They called them the Saigon Five. So Đào Thế Sương, Năm Thế Anh, Bùi Ngọc Điệp, Lê Văn Mỹ, and Hổ Đắc Đặc. And they moved to California, too, except for Sương and now he's in Louisiana. 

Interviewer 1 [00:18:21] Oh, excellent. So. So let's go back and see. Can we talk a little bit about so leading up to the Tet Offensive and then after that then you guys had a departure. So can you talk about like what it was like that the day that you departed Vietnam? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:18:38] Okay, okay. How I got there?

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:18:41] At that time we heard about, you know, like leaving people, leaving Vietnam. So my mother had connection with a girl. I called her the my mother's adopted daughter, and she worked for the embassy, and she didn't have money to get out, so she introduced us to a friend. And the friend was married to a CIA guy. Young guy. Since both mothers have the same last name. My mother passed as her mother's sister, that's how we got out. So we got a new. And at that time, it's hard for my, Dr. Đào you know, to get out, because he was still young. So the guy had to borrow a pickup truck with a, like a how do you call the the, a huge box where he kept his, tools, you know, and he put my, ex-husband in there at that time, my my husband. And so he took us to the airport. We spend one day, one night there, and then we did some, you know, like paper and our plane left on I think at noon on the 29th of April. 

Interviewer 2 [00:20:37] Oh, wow. Yes. 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:20:43] We moved all the seats and we were sitting on the floor in like sardines. 

Interviewer 2 [00:20:48] Sardines on this plane. Do you know how many people? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:20:51] Oh, we just didn't know. Just full. 

Interviewer 2 [00:20:56] If you if you think back, can you guess how many people are on that plane? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:21:01] It's a decent, it's a cargo. So maybe like 100? And you know, and kids had to, you know, sit on their mother's lap in the mother's lap. 

Interviewer 2 [00:21:18] So your mom passed as the sister. She was able to take you and then your husband had to be snuck? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:21:26] Yeah, I was 32 years old at that time. And my daughter was almost eight. She celebrated her eighth birthday in Oklahoma City. She was born June 6th, 1967. 

Interviewer 1 [00:21:46] Her eighth birthday in Oklahoma City. So when the plane came back, the cargo plane, did it fly directly to Tinker and ended up in Oklahoma City, or did you go through like California? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:21:58] We were flown to Guam. We we stayed there for two weeks processing, and then they flew us to Pendleton, California, instead of for Fort Chaffee, you know, Arkansas. So we stayed there for two weeks and two doctors from here sponsor us. Okay. So we spent, like, only one month in camp in the refugee camp.

Interviewer 2 [00:22:29] Can I ask when you first arrived to America, even if it was in California, what was your first impression? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:22:36] Impression? Cold. [Laughter] It was at night, 3:00 in the morning and I remember that night two people died. Yeah, because they maybe older people. They couldn't stand the cold because we were not prepared. We didn't have any sweaters. Nothing. Just a hat, a suitcase for my husband, my daughter and me. Just one suitcase. So we we got, you know, just papers, our birth certificate. You know, those things, you know, just one suitcase for the three of us. 

Interviewer 2 [00:23:25] What was your first impression of American people? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:23:28] American people? Hm, at that time. It's. It's kind of funny. When we arrived in Pendleton, when we did our papers they ask us, where are you going to? Oklahoma. Where is Oklahoma? And then, you know, we know more about, you know, U.S., geography than Americans. But in 75, they didn't even know where Oklahoma was. And then we said, oh, it's in the middle, you know. Oh, Indians. So it's so funny. My first impression they didn't know much about, you know. And we learned that in school. In school. Right. High school and already. It's so funny. 

Interviewer 1 [00:24:34] So when, when you came to Oklahoma then what was your impression about Oklahoma as a place to stay and live and why not move anywhere else? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:24:46] Why? Because it's because of my husband. He had a good job because he came here and he taught already. He had, oh one of his sponsor, we had two, ask his secretary to give her car key to my husband. So we got her car right away. So he he had to have some way of transportation to go to work. They needed him at that time to teach the other, you know, doctors. And at that time, I can tell you, eggs costs $0.20 a dozen. And uh what, chicken wings were free they didn't know. They didn't eat those things. And now chicken wings cost more than chicken legs. Right. Because of Vietnamese people. And now we have what, Starbucks? Café au lait, why? Thanks to Vietnamese people. But before that they didn't have iced coffee now they d you see, thanks to us. 

Interviewer 2 [00:26:24] The community's really changed in Oklahoma. 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:26:26] It's changed, it really has. 

Interviewer 1 [00:26:28] So like you could say that your husband, your ex-husband, it would be one of the very first Vietnamese docts in Oklahoma? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:26:37] Yeah, I think we were the first Vietnamese refugee in Oklahoma City. 

Interviewer 2 [00:26:42] I was going to ask, how many in in 75. How many? What was the population of Vietnamese in Oklahoma? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:26:48] Oh, Vetnamese you can count.  

Interviewer 2 [00:26:52] So maybe like ten, 20 families?

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:26:55] Yeah only, you know, only Fort Chaffee. So yeah, but not from California from Pendleton not many. 

Interviewer 1 [00:27:07] So a lot of them migrated from Fort Chaffee? Not many go through the Camp Pendleton, right, to Oklahoma. 

Interviewer 2 [00:27:14] Because of the proximity. 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:27:16] Yeah. 

Interviewer 1 [00:27:17] And so and so, like, can you explain, like, what was it like in your experience, in that experience of that journey? And coming to, to to Oklahoma to start that life and then actually what? And so not only, what have you found great about Oklahoma City that made you want to stay instead of going to California or going to other places? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:27:42] Yeah, people think that it's a slow state, but to me, the people are nicer, you know, friendly. And the lifestyle here is not expensive. You see, you can buy a nice house for $200,000. You cannot buy a house you know in, for example, even in Dallas for that kind of money and especially California. There's no way. You see? But here we with $200,000 you can have a nice house. And the cost of living is. So I heard that many people started moving from California to Oklahoma City and other states also. And you can see houses. They just they keep building, you know, houses and apartments here in Oklahoma City. 

Interviewer 1 [00:29:02] And, let's go back and say and talk about. So being the very first five families here. What is your part in our community? And, like, how have you seen it grown? And I know that in, in talking that you started an organization to help a lot of our refugee families.

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:29:26] Okay the first organization, I think it's still there. The Vietnamese American Association. There was a group. It was, the first president of the Vietnamese American Association was Mr. Nguyễn Đình Thư because he was kind of older, you know. And we wrote my husband. We wrote a grant to help the Vietnamese refugees. At that time, it was only Vietnamese refugees. And we got to grant.  We had to hire an American writer. Yeah, at that time. And so my husband was the vice president. And, at that time, I started working already as a Vietnamese coordinator at the Oklahoma City Public School hiring teachers agent. Then my husband asked me to quit to come help, you know, with the refugees. So I quit there. And, I spent one year learning how to detect mental health people, so I had one. I had the, certification for that. yeah. One year, I remember Doctor Baker. Oh, I can tell you, when you look at his eyes, you can tell that he's a psychiatrist, and it's fun to work with them. So I was. I was called, like, a professional. And so I work with Anh Phạm, Vũ Quang's wife at that time. Oh. It's together. Then, Mr. Thư left Oklahoma City. So my husband took over. And he was also the first Vietnamese president of the Buddhist Association here. 

Interviewer 2 [00:32:27] Did the association help new refugees that came to Oklahoma? What did they help them with? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:32:35] Oh like for example I help. We had English classes and then I did some translation. I took, like, Denise Mother she was pregnant and Denise and also they were pregnant. So I took them to doctors to, get some like milk in general, food for kids, for pregnant women. And when they delivered, I told them, you know, like everything I did everything. 

Interviewer 1 [00:33:22] So basically, you actually help, kind of assimilate our community from moving from from Vietnam. 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:33:32] And then since I worked there, I sponsor like about 12 families. And I didn't know, like the niece, I didn't know them. And, an organization called the USCC called us and asked me, do you want to sponsor? I said, fine. So. And then I think 12. And then, you see, because of the, hm, how do you call that?

Interviewer 1 [00:34:11] You can speak Vietnamese.

Speaker 2 [00:34:21] Since I don't, I don't use. Cái gì đó? Cái chương trình xin tiền đó. (What is it? That state welfare program?)

Interviewer 1 [00:34:29] Oh, welfare food stamps, yeah. 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:34:35] Welfare in California is better than here. That's why they move to California.

Interviewer 2 [00:34:43] I see, yeah. But you would help them apply for welfare? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:34:45] Yeha, apply for those things, take them to doctors and enroll in schools. And you know, I did everything. And some of them called me at night. And I remember I spent like, almost. Like 3 or 4 hours at the, with the, to help translate for like a delivery one night. 

Interviewer 2 [00:35:17] When you came to the U.S., how old were your children? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:35:20] I have only one daughter.

Interviewer 2 [00:35:22] Just one daughter, eight. What was it like raising your daughter in the United States? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:35:26] I didn't have any. I didn't have any problem. You know, she's at school, she learned English, but at home, Vietnamese. Even though my mother stayed with us and my mother spoke French and English, but no English at home. Not at all. And she was almost like, eight years old. So that's how she can still speak, read, and write Vietnamese. Just like me. 

Interviewer 2 [00:36:01] Can we just go back to when you were living in Vietnam and at what point did you have doubt? That South Vietnam was not going to win the war. Did you have doubts? And when? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:36:18] At that time, I didn't know. 

Interviewer 2 [00:36:21] You didn't know what was going to happen? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:36:23] No. Do you know even do you know, like doctors, even some of the big wigs didn't know. That the Americans governmeent signed a treaty. We didn't know that's why there are a lot of officers were caught in Vietnam. We didn't. We didn't know. Not at all. Yeah. 

Interviewer 2 [00:36:55] When you had pack your bags to leave for America on that plane. The night before, you packed your bags to leave for America. How did you feel? So the night before you were still in Vietnam, you're about to leave? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:37:10] You know, it was blank. You know, we didn't think that we would not be able to come back. Because, you know, we have just a suitcase. We said, oh, we'll be back, you know, soon. And we didn't. I didn't know. I didn't. 

Interviewer 2 [00:37:32] What did you pack with you that night you left Vietnam? You were starting to talk about what you packed. 

Interviewer 1 [00:37:39] So do you remember what you packed?

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:37:43] Just all the papers, you know. And. Let's see, some clothes for my daughter. And I had one pair of shoes. And, I think that that's it. That's it. Like two pair of slacks. Some blouses and, you know, just one suitcase for three people so we didn't pack much. 

Interviewer 2 [00:38:16] Did you take any photos? You took some photographs? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:38:20] Yeah, some photographs of my daughter when she was three years old. You know, when she went to school 

Interviewer 2 [00:38:29] When was the first time you went back to Vietnam? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:38:31] It was, in 2005. I took my, mother's ashes home. She was cremated, too. 

Interviewer 2 [00:38:40] What was your impression of what Vietnam was like? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:38:44] It was a big change and I was sad. 

Interviewer 2 [00:38:48] Why? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:38:49] Why? Because now, if you live in the city, like in Saigon, it's totally different. But if you go south in the countryside, it's sad. You could see people with just a basket of fish and dead fish. On the side of the street selling those. And I, at that time I almost cried, you know, to see those people. And the people were poor. You know, it's worse than before. At least before you kept what you had made, you know you got. 

Interviewer 1 [00:39:37] And to go ahead and summarize. Can you summarize why Oklahoma City in one or two sentences, what you love most about Oklahoma City? 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:39:51] Oklahoma City I don't like the weather. [Laughter] But I like the people, the lifestyle. You know the style here. And, you can save money. And your kids don't, you know they can study here. It's not like in big cities the day the kids have more freedom, I think, and more. And peer pressure. Too much peer pressure. So here, like my daughter. I was tough with her, you know. And they didn't. We don't have, you know, like, a lot of bars or those little, you know, things that kids can. Like. And how would I say corrupted? 

Interviewer 2 [00:40:59] More that can influence kids. 

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:41:03] Yeah, bad influence.

Thu Nguyen Wright [00:41:04] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not here. 

Interviewer 2 [00:41:09] That's beautiful. You're making me want to move here.